Comments on: Common Causes http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/ Mark Jaquith's blog about capitalism, freedom, WordPress, the web, and personal topics Wed, 02 May 2012 07:17:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4-beta4-20838 By: paula martin http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-10341 paula martin Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:22:39 +0000 http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/#comment-10341 I am not a pro marriage fan for the gay or straight community. It is very large personal commitment. That is the only context that will protect marriage. It is sometimes indiscriminately entered into. It is romanticised and pushed before you can think for yourself. There is no difference between a commitment made by a gay or straight couple. One of the reasons I am for gay marriage is because the majority of the country has this right. This government claims to be for all the people. Do they mean only on certain issues? Go to www.blogger.com Then do a search for gaybydevinedesign. Then you can read how we been lied to and used to push an anti-gay agenda that has hurt this nation. I am not a pro marriage fan for the gay or straight community. It is very large personal commitment. That is the only context that will protect marriage. It is sometimes indiscriminately entered into. It is romanticised and pushed before you can think for yourself.
There is no difference between a commitment made by a gay or straight couple. One of the reasons I am for gay marriage is because the majority of the country has this right. This government claims to be for all the people. Do they mean only on certain issues?
Go to http://www.blogger.com Then do a search for gaybydevinedesign. Then you can read how we been lied to and used to push an anti-gay agenda that has hurt this nation.

]]> By: Mark http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-10168 Mark Sun, 13 Nov 2005 04:08:08 +0000 http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/#comment-10168 <blockquote>In the meantime, we can make sure gay couples have the same legal rights as married couples.</blockquote> That's what it is about, in the end. Call it whatever you like, just give them equal rights.

In the meantime, we can make sure gay couples have the same legal rights as married couples.

That’s what it is about, in the end. Call it whatever you like, just give them equal rights.

]]> By: Bonnie http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-10167 Bonnie Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:20:32 +0000 http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/#comment-10167 I, like Jayson, have several decent friends and relatives who are not bigoted, but who feel strongly about keeping marriage between a man and a woman. I'm all for legalizing gay marriage myself, but I'm wondering if our nation just isn't ready yet. The Netherlands was the very first nation in the entire history of human civilization to recognize gay marriage in 2001, so it's a huge emotional step, really, bucking thousands of years of tradition. Gay marriage might be one of those ideas that needs more time to percolate, and then it will pass without fanfare 10 or 15 years from now, probably after several more nations legalize it. In the meantime, we can make sure gay couples have the same legal rights as married couples. I'm not making excuses for it, just trying to figure out why there's so much opposition. I don't believe it's all hatred and bigotry as much as I think it's fear of the unknown. I, like Jayson, have several decent friends and relatives who are not bigoted, but who feel strongly about keeping marriage between a man and a woman. I’m all for legalizing gay marriage myself, but I’m wondering if our nation just isn’t ready yet.

The Netherlands was the very first nation in the entire history of human civilization to recognize gay marriage in 2001, so it’s a huge emotional step, really, bucking thousands of years of tradition.

Gay marriage might be one of those ideas that needs more time to percolate, and then it will pass without fanfare 10 or 15 years from now, probably after several more nations legalize it. In the meantime, we can make sure gay couples have the same legal rights as married couples.

I’m not making excuses for it, just trying to figure out why there’s so much opposition. I don’t believe it’s all hatred and bigotry as much as I think it’s fear of the unknown.

]]> By: Mark http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-10152 Mark Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:19:58 +0000 http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/#comment-10152 Well, hatred may be a strong word, but how about prejudice? "The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions." There must be some reason he thinks that special rights should be granted exclusively to heterosexuals. His seems to be of the "the traditional religious definition of marriage should be preserved" variety. It may not be motivated by hate, but it is still discriminatory and prejudiced. Well, hatred may be a strong word, but how about prejudice? “The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.” There must be some reason he thinks that special rights should be granted exclusively to heterosexuals. His seems to be of the “the traditional religious definition of marriage should be preserved” variety. It may not be motivated by hate, but it is still discriminatory and prejudiced.

]]> By: Jayson http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-10148 Jayson Sat, 12 Nov 2005 15:37:39 +0000 http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/#comment-10148 Mark, I guess I wasn't very clear. My only point was that it's possible and even highly likely that people who are against gay marriage are against it for reasons other than hatred. They may be wrong about the nature of law and rights and what homosexuality is and isn't, but they're not bigots. Sure there are those out there, but I've had discussions with much more people from the former than the latter. Hell, my grandpa is the most socially liberal person you could imagine; he has MANY gay friends. However, he contends that marriage is something special and should be protected and promoted and that "gay marriage" is just a fraud. Is he wrong? Maybe. Is he a bigot? No. Mark,

I guess I wasn’t very clear. My only point was that it’s possible and even highly likely that people who are against gay marriage are against it for reasons other than hatred. They may be wrong about the nature of law and rights and what homosexuality is and isn’t, but they’re not bigots. Sure there are those out there, but I’ve had discussions with much more people from the former than the latter. Hell, my grandpa is the most socially liberal person you could imagine; he has MANY gay friends. However, he contends that marriage is something special and should be protected and promoted and that “gay marriage” is just a fraud. Is he wrong? Maybe. Is he a bigot? No.

]]> By: Mark http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-10145 Mark Sat, 12 Nov 2005 07:13:55 +0000 http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/#comment-10145 Self-destructive behavior is inhibited by its very definition. You don't need the government to ensure that. (I'm not saying that gay relationships are self-destructive, just addressing the point hypothetically.) And "society" doesn't have rights. Individuals do. I'm against legal recognition of "marriage," because "marriage" is a loaded term with a lot of differing personal religious/spiritual significances. We still need civil unions, for things like visitation rights, inheritance and child custody, but I'd be happy to drop the word "marriage" and further separate the legal definition of a civil union from the personal religious definition of a marriage Self-destructive behavior is inhibited by its very definition. You don’t need the government to ensure that. (I’m not saying that gay relationships are self-destructive, just addressing the point hypothetically.) And “society” doesn’t have rights. Individuals do.

I’m against legal recognition of “marriage,” because “marriage” is a loaded term with a lot of differing personal religious/spiritual significances. We still need civil unions, for things like visitation rights, inheritance and child custody, but I’d be happy to drop the word “marriage” and further separate the legal definition of a civil union from the personal religious definition of a marriage

]]> By: Jayson http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-10140 Jayson Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:54:54 +0000 http://txfx.net/2005/11/08/common-causes/#comment-10140 One can believe that gay relationships are inherently destructive to the individuals participating. They could also believe, therefore, that promoting and honoring such relationships through legislation only does harm to society. They may be wrong about the nature of homosexuality, but opposition to gay marriage doesn't necessarily stem ipso facto from gay hatred. But shouldn't libertarians be against any state recognition and involvement in things like marriage, anyways? One can believe that gay relationships are inherently destructive to the individuals participating. They could also believe, therefore, that promoting and honoring such relationships through legislation only does harm to society. They may be wrong about the nature of homosexuality, but opposition to gay marriage doesn’t necessarily stem ipso facto from gay hatred.

But shouldn’t libertarians be against any state recognition and involvement in things like marriage, anyways?

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